Love People Enough · Episode guide

Abdul El-Sayed: The Real Story

Micah and Rob. Read it top to bottom and you have the whole episode: what each part is about, the facts, the words to say, the clip to play, and the question to throw to Rob. About 45 minutes plus clips.

What this episode is about

Abdul El-Sayed is a doctor from Michigan who had never been elected to anything. This August he took on a sitting congresswoman, got outspent several times over, and won. Now he is the Democratic nominee in one of the most important Senate races in the country, and on November 3rd he could become the first Muslim US senator in history.

Republicans say he and his family have ties to the Muslim Brotherhood, the Islamist movement Hamas grew out of. Democrats say that's Islamophobia. On NBC's Meet the Press he was asked flat out if his family has any ties to the Brotherhood. He said no.

Today we go through the record and find out who's telling the truth. Where the attacks on him are wrong, we say so. Where his own words don't hold up, we play them.

The one rule for the whole episode: say what the record shows, then give your opinion and call it your opinion.

1Cold open1 min

What this part is about: Hook the listener in the first 30 seconds with his own answer, before you explain anything.

Play firstNBC Meet the Press, Oct 11: Kristen Welker asks him straight out
Start 22:30, stop 23:00, right after he says "No." Play it before either of you says a word.
Say it like thisThat's Abdul El-Sayed. He's running for US Senate in Michigan, and that was him on Meet the Press last Sunday. The question was simple: does your family have any ties to the Muslim Brotherhood? And his answer was no. I'm Micah, this is Rob, and this is Love People Enough. Today we're going through the record, and you can decide for yourself if that answer holds up.

2Who is Abdul El-Sayed, and why should anyone care?4 min

What this part is about: Most people listening have never heard of him. Before any accusation, tell them who he is, what he's running for, and why one Senate race in Michigan matters to someone in Virginia.

The facts
ClipAl Jazeera: El-Sayed wins the primary over the AIPAC money
Any 15 seconds from the opening. Shows the crowd and how big a win it was.
Say it like thisSo who is this guy? Abdul El-Sayed is a doctor from Michigan. His parents came here from Egypt. He's smart: Rhodes Scholar, Columbia, ran Detroit's health department at 30. But he had never been elected to anything. He ran for governor once and lost. This August he goes up against a sitting congresswoman, gets outspent several times over, and wins anyway. He was the underdog, and now he's the Democratic nominee for Senate in Michigan. On November 3rd it's him against Mike Rogers, a Republican, Army vet, former FBI agent. The polls are basically tied. And here's why you should care even if you've never been to Michigan. That one seat could decide which party runs the US Senate. If he wins, he'd also be the first Muslim US senator in history. So this isn't a Michigan story. It's everybody's story.
Hand it to RobBefore I brought this to you, had you ever heard of him? What was your first reaction?

3Why I looked into this4 min

What this part is about: Your own story. This is what makes the listener trust you: you didn't go looking for dirt, you went looking to be proven wrong.

Your points, in order
Say it like thisI want to be upfront about where I'm coming from. I'm an Army vet. I was in Iraq. I've had bullets go past my face, and I've lost someone close to me. So when I hear the word Muslim, a lot of what comes up for me is war. I know that. An old friend of mine from when I was a kid called me out on Facebook. He spent years overseas, and he said the Muslims he met were the kindest, most generous people he's ever known. And he was respectful about it. That stuck with me. So when I kept seeing these headlines, Republicans saying this guy has terror ties and Democrats saying it's all Islamophobia, I wanted to know who was telling the truth. I sat down for four hours, honestly hoping it was overblown. Some of it is. And some of it, I could not believe.
Hand it to RobYou know me. Do you think I went into this fair? Call me out if you don't.

4What is the Muslim Brotherhood?4 min

What this part is about: The whole episode turns on this group, and most people can't say what it is. Explain it plainly before you say his family's name.

The facts
ClipIndia Today: US designates Brotherhood chapters in Egypt, Jordan and Lebanon
First 20 seconds.
Say it like thisOkay, so what is the Muslim Brotherhood? It started in Egypt in 1928. It's a political movement, and the goal is a government run by Islamic law. Some branches run in elections like a normal party. Others have backed violence. To put it in perspective: Hamas, the group that carried out October 7th, started as the Brotherhood's branch in Gaza. That's in Hamas's own founding charter. In January our government named three Brotherhood branches as terrorist groups: Egypt, Jordan and Lebanon. Not the whole movement. Personally, I don't understand why not. That's my opinion. So no, not everyone tied to the Brotherhood is a terrorist. But when a man running for the US Senate is asked if his family has ties to it, that's a fair question. And he deserves a straight answer.
Hand it to RobIf a Senate candidate's family had ties to some extremist group on the far right, would we even be debating whether it's fair to ask?

5Give him his due first3 min

What this part is about: Before the hard part, show you're being fair. If you cartoon him, the people you most want to reach stop listening.

The facts
Clip: his side, in his wordsMS NOW, Aug 5: El-Sayed answers the attacks
Start 9:45, stop 10:30. "They're going to use Islamophobia because their ideas are tired."
Say it like thisI'm going to give him his due first. This is a smart, accomplished guy, and he has condemned Hamas, on the record. And not everything Republicans say about him holds up. I like Ted Cruz. But the day after El-Sayed won, Cruz said in a Senate hearing that his campaign is openly embracing terrorist organizations, and there's nothing behind that. So I'm not doing that. I'm going to show you the record, and his own words, and you decide.
Hand it to RobHe says every one of these questions is Islamophobia. Where's the line between asking fair questions about a candidate and going after his religion?

6His family: what the record shows8 min

What this part is about: The heart of the episode. Three people: his half-sister, his birth mother, and his father-in-law. All three are private citizens and none was ever charged with a crime, so this is where the exact words matter most. Say what each one did. Let the listener connect it.

His half-sister's posts

The facts
ClipNBC, Oct 14: Tom Llamas reads her posts to him
Start 4:15, stop 5:30. Ends on "It's just not serious."
Say it like thisHis own half-sister, back in 2012, posted that she had an amazing talk with their mom about her activism in the Muslim Brotherhood in college. She wrote: my family has long been MB. And that relatives in Egypt went to jail for being part of it. Those are her words, not mine.

His birth mother and the charity

The facts
ClipFull debate, Oct 8 (The Hill)
Scrub for "You're going after my mom?" No exact time on this one.
Say it like thisHis birth mother worked five years for a charity in Missouri. In 2004 the Treasury shut it down as a terror financier. Her name is on its wire transfers in the court papers more than a dozen times. She was never charged, and I'm not saying she did anything. And to be fair, he didn't grow up with her. Fine. Then say that. Don't tell Meet the Press your family has no ties.

His father-in-law, Tayeb Jukaku

Two groups and one court case to explain first, in one breath each:

The facts
Put on screenFEC: Jukaku's donations · FEC: CAIR super PAC's payments
ClipAl Jazeera, Nov 2008: US Muslim charity guilty of supporting Hamas
First 20 seconds, the verdict.
Say it like thisHis father-in-law ran the Michigan chapter of CAIR for five years and is still on the board. He's also a founder-level guy at ISNA. Federal prosecutors named both of those groups in the biggest Hamas financing case in American history. Named, never charged. He gave three hundred thousand dollars to the super PAC electing his son-in-law. Then July 20th he gives a hundred grand to CAIR's super PAC, and July 21st that PAC sends a hundred seventy-five grand to the same super PAC. That's not me. That's the federal filings.
If someone pushes back"You're judging him by his family." No. I'm judging his answer about his family. Nobody picks their relatives. You do pick what you say on Meet the Press.
Hand it to RobNobody chooses their family. So how much of this is fair to put on him?

7The 2012 Morsi letter2 min

What this part is about: Something with his own name on it, from before he was in politics. Attribute it, because the source is one outlet.

The facts
Clip 1France 24: Egypt in crisis after Morsi's decree
First 15 seconds.
Clip 2AP Archive: clashes outside the palace
Up to 45 seconds.
Put on screenWashington Free Beacon story
Say it like thisIn 2012 the Brotherhood's president in Egypt, Morsi, put himself above the courts. A letter backing him, and telling him to purge the media and the police, has a signer named Dr. Abdul Rahman El-Sayed, of New York. The Washington Free Beacon says that's him. His campaign never answered. Days later, Morsi's supporters were beating protesters outside the palace. If that's not him, all he has to do is say so.
Hand it to RobIf that's him, does a letter from 2012 matter today? People change in 14 years.

8The money he kept4 min

What this part is about: This one isn't about his relatives. It's his own campaign account, and his own choice to keep the money.

The facts
Put on screenFEC: Awad's donation · Fox News review
ClipFox Business: the headlines
0:00 to 0:12 only. Stop before the line about his mom and bin Laden. That goes further than the record.
Say it like thisForget his family for a second. This is his own campaign account. Forty-one people who work for CAIR or have led it gave him more than a hundred fifteen thousand dollars. One of them is CAIR's founder and boss, Nihad Awad. After October 7th, Awad said he was happy to see it. The Biden White House condemned him for that. He wrote El-Sayed a check, and El-Sayed kept it. Another donor is Mohamed Soltan. Mohamed is an American, Egypt jailed him, and we got him out. But his father is a Brotherhood cleric who called for killing Israel's ambassador, on video. I'm not saying every one of those donors is a bad person. I'm saying this man campaigns on getting money out of politics, and this is the money he decided to keep.
Hand it to RobShould he give back Awad's money? Would you, even if it was only $750?

9"No ties." The denial4 min

What this part is about: Bring it back to the cold open. Now the listener knows everything you know, so his "No" means something.

The facts
ReplayMeet the Press, Oct 11
Start 22:30, stop 23:00. Same clip as the open.
Say it like thisSo back to where we started. Does his family have ties to the Brotherhood? He says no. His sister says the family has long been Brotherhood, and their mom was active in it. His mother worked at a charity the Treasury shut down as a terror financier. His father-in-law led groups named in the biggest Hamas financing case in history, and he's funding the campaign. Maybe none of that makes him Brotherhood. I'm not saying it does. But here's what he could have said: some of my relatives were part of that movement. I'm not. I don't believe what they believe. Done. Story over. Instead he said no. No ties. With all that out there? That's not an answer. That's a dodge. Do they think we're stupid?
Hand it to RobWhy do you think he said no instead of just owning it?

10Temple Israel6 min

What this part is about: A terror attack on a synagogue in his own state, and what he said the next day. This is the clip of the episode.

The facts
Clip 1WDIV: first officer on scene
10 to 15 seconds of him describing it.
Clip 2: the oneEl-Sayed's own video, the day after
Start 0:58, stop 1:40. Play all of it, the condemnation and the "hurt people" part. Don't cut his condemnation out.
Put on screenNo video of the "whole genocide" answer that I could find. Put the quote up: Jewish Insider, April 8
Clip 3CBS Detroit, Aug 30: the apology
Start 1:00, stop 1:20. "May have been misconstrued."
Say it like thisIn March a man drove a truck into a synagogue outside Detroit. There's a preschool in that building, about 140 little kids. Thank God every one of them got out. The FBI says he was inspired by Hezbollah. His brother was a Hezbollah commander. The next day El-Sayed put out a video. He condemned it, and I'll give him that. Then he explained it. Hurt people hurt people. Then somebody asked him: does that go both ways? What about a Jew who attacks a mosque? And his answer was, after October 7th there was a whole genocide. So the understanding only goes one direction. In my opinion, the explanation cancels the condemnation. And five months later, right after he won, he said his comments may have been misconstrued. Misconstrued.
If someone pushes back"He said nothing justifies it." He did, and I played it. My problem is what he said right after, and that he wouldn't say it the other way around.
Hand it to RobYou've got kids. If someone drove into their school, and a Senate candidate said "hurt people hurt people" the next day, how does that land?

11Hasan Piker3 min

What this part is about: Who he chooses to stand next to. Piker is a huge online figure your audience may not know, so introduce him first.

The facts
Clip 1Piker: "America deserved 9/11" (2019 stream)
24 seconds, all of it.
Clip 2Fox News: Haley Stevens, a Democrat, on Piker
Start 3:43, stop 3:52. "It certainly makes sense to get rid of this Hasan Piker affiliation. I'm calling on that."
Clip 3MS NOW: asked if he'll keep campaigning with Piker
Start 9:06, stop 9:17. "I'm not as focused on who I'm campaigning with."
Say it like thisIf you don't know Hasan Piker, he's a streamer with millions of young followers. He said America deserved 9/11. He said Hamas is a thousand times better than Israel. El-Sayed held a rally with him. And it's not just Republicans saying drop him. Haley Stevens, the Democrat he beat, is saying it. His answer: he's not focused on who he campaigns with. You're running for the US Senate. Who you stand next to is the whole thing.
Hand it to RobIs it fair to hold a candidate responsible for what a supporter says? Where's your line?

12Israel, Iran and October 7th7 min

What this part is about: His record on Israel since October 7th, and the one yes-or-no question about Iran he couldn't answer. Plus your take, as a vet, on how Israel fights.

The facts
Put on screenHis Oct 21 post: Jewish Insider · The anniversary email: Jewish Insider
Clip 1CNN: Kasie Hunt asks three times if Israel has a right to exist
Play through "I'm not going to play this gotcha game."
Clip 2Fox News: the debate, Iran or Israel
Start 1:37, stop 1:56.
Clip 3: the strongest oneThe IRGC question at the town hall
Start 1:53, stop 2:35, then 3:57 to 4:10. Student: "You still haven't said it, and we're dying. Do you stand with us?" Him: "I will always stand with movements for freedom and democracy."
Say it like thisTwo weeks after October 7th, before a single Israeli soldier set foot in Gaza, he was calling it genocide. On CNN he was asked three times if Israel has a right to exist, and he wouldn't say yes. On the anniversary of October 7th his campaign sent a fundraising email that didn't say the word Hamas. In the debate he was asked who's more dangerous, Iran or Israel, and he said both. And a college kid whose uncle got fifty lashes from the Iranian regime asked him one yes or no question: do you stand against the IRGC, Iran's Revolutionary Guard, the outfit that runs Hezbollah? He couldn't say yes. To be fair, he said he wants freedom for the people of Iran. But the kid asked about the IRGC. That's the question.
If someone pushes back"He called Iran a dangerous threat in the same debate." He did. And in the same breath he put Israel next to it. "He was against the war, not for the regime." Then it's easy: I'm against the war, and the IRGC is a terrorist outfit. Two sentences. He gave one.

Your take as a vet: how Israel fights

This part is your opinion and your experience. Say so, and the critics have nothing to grab.

The facts
ClipIDF: roof knocking in action
34 seconds. Say what roof knocking is before you play it.
Outside voiceUS Air Force Gen. Charles Wald on roof knocking
Short. An American general, not the IDF.
Say it like thisI was in Iraq. Here's what I can tell you. I have never heard of an army that calls the people on the other side, texts them, drops maps telling them where to go, and knocks on the roof before it hits the building. John Spencer, who runs urban warfare studies at West Point, argues no army in history has done more to avoid civilian deaths. That's my view too. So when a man calls it genocide two weeks in, before the ground war even started, I don't think he got there from the evidence.
Hand it to RobYou've heard me on Israel a lot. Where do you think I'm wrong?

13What if he wins?3 min

What this part is about: Why this matters past November. This is opinion and worry, and you say so out loud. That makes it hit harder, not softer.

The facts
Say it like thisHere's what worries me. A US senator sees classified information. That's part of the job. So if a man's family has these ties, and he takes this money, and he won't give a straight answer about any of it, does he become a Trojan horse? That's my worry. I can't prove it, and I'm not claiming to. I'm asking the question. And I think Michigan voters should be asking it too.
Hand it to RobIs that a fair worry, or is that the exact thing he calls Islamophobia?

14Close: who was telling the truth?3 min

What this part is about: Give the verdict, say where you stand, and send people to the sources.

Say it like thisSo who was telling the truth? Not everything Republicans said about him holds up. We checked, and we told you which parts. But what does hold up is bad enough, and most of it is his own words. A family his own sister says has long been Brotherhood, and he told Meet the Press no ties. Money from the man who was happy on October 7th, and he kept it. Hurt people hurt people, but only in one direction. And a yes or no on the IRGC he couldn't give. In my opinion, that's not who Michigan should send to the Senate. And for the record, I'm not a Republican. Neither side works for me right now. But I'll vote for whoever stands with Israel. Don't take my word for any of this. Every source is in the description. Go check it, and if we got something wrong, tell us. We'll fix it on air.
Hand it to RobLast word to Rob: what's the one thing you want someone undecided in Michigan to take from this?

Quick reference

Who's who, in one breath each
Words to keep out of your mouth